poll
by | Don't read children's books | |
| See the movies when they're on DVD | |
| Read the books eventually | |
| Read the books immediatley | |
| Wake up in the middle of the night looking for my wand to battle evil wizards | |
| J. K. Rowling speaks to me through various characters | |
| Write fan fiction | |
| See every movie in full costume four times | |
| Have a lightning tattoo on my forehead | |
| Is that pornography? |
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The Potter books are good children's books. I've read all but the last - I read way too much to buy fiction in hardback - and I've enjoyed them. But they're pretty shallow, compared to Tolkien, or Burroughs or even Heinlein's juvenile novels.
They're fun stories, and it's nice to see some printed words catching kids' attention, but great literature? Nah.
The Potter books are kids books, but they're incredibly popular among adults, too. Is there really so little curiosity over what all the fuss is about?
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Burn the Witch! by Eye.Of.Sage :: NR6 :: on 11 August 2007
Shouldn't we, as good Christian, burn Harry for witchcraft?
It's blasphemous!
RE: Burn the Witch! by scottb :: NR7 :: on 12 August 2007
Shouldn't we, as good Christian, burn Harry for witchcraft?
I assume you're joking, but unfortunately, there are people seriously saying stuff like that. Like here and here.
Creepy.
RE: Burn the Witch! by ldsudduth :: NR7 :: on 12 August 2007
I agree with you Scott--one has to learn to draw the line between fantasy and reality--and parents have the obligation to teach that to their children. I believe that those who think Harry Potter to be a 'dangerous introduction to witchcraft' don't have a clue. It's not--in fact, one of the so-called 'spells' in the movies sounds an awful lot like a bacteria they're touting in some yogurt/milk product on TV.
At any rate, Harry Potter is no more 'occult' than Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia. Believe it or not, I've heard the latter two espoused as just as evil as Harry Potter--even though BOTH are written by christian authors and intended as biblical allegory (Narnia moreso than Rings). There are other christian authors writing books of a similar vein as Harry Potter--and they're getting some negative tirades too. You won't hear it from me.
RE: Burn the Witch! by Eye.Of.Sage :: NR6 :: on 12 August 2007
Those religious fanatics always exaggerate the truth.
I wonder what they would say to this movie. or rather some of Mark Twain's works.
RE: Burn the Witch! by scottb :: NR7 :: on 12 August 2007
I agree with you Scott--one has to learn to draw the line between fantasy and reality--and parents have the obligation to teach that to their children.
Now if we could just get you to work out which side of that dichotomy the Bible lies on. ;)
At any rate, Harry Potter is no more 'occult' than Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia. Believe it or not, I've heard the latter two espoused as just as evil as Harry Potter--even though BOTH are written by christian authors and intended as biblical allegory (Narnia moreso than Rings).
Narnia much more so than Rings. Tolkein was a Christian (well, he was Anglican, which can be pretty theoretical), but Middle Earth owed far more to the Eddas than to Christianity.
Is it just me reading into what you're saying or is there a "... but there are other books that qualify as 'a dangerous introduction to witchcraft'" lurking behind your comment? You sound like you're trying to say Potter, Rings, and Narnia are harmless, but H.P. Lovecraft is dangerous or something.
RE: Burn the Witch! by ldsudduth :: NR7 :: on 12 August 2007
You sound like you're trying to say Potter, Rings, and Narnia are harmless, but H.P. Lovecraft is dangerous or something.
Cthulu dangerous? While they are creepy stories that keep you up at night, they have nothing to do with witchcraft. Chthulu stories are just fantasy caused by too much ice cream (Lovecraft abstained from alcohol and drugs but really loved ice cream AFAIK).
My 'dangerous introduction' comment was actually a quote from many different ministers who believe that about Harry Potter; and all fantasy for that matter. Make no mistake, I may be a Christian--but my belief is that those kinds of comments are laughable. Exodus 22:18 is often used to justify this belief but, the Hebrew word used there is m'khashepah, which actually references those (usually women, but not always) who uses spoken spells to cause death or loss of property to another. Or, for another phrase 'Evil Sorcery'.
The other place often 'misinterpreted' happens to be Deuteronomy 18:10-11. Looking at the original Hebrew, these verses actually only codemn those who practice the arts of communing with the dead (deliberately, not accidentally), predicting the future, snake charming, channelling, casting lots/reading tea leaves/tarot, etc to predcit the future,knot magic, or (again) evil sorcery. Not anyone who is an herbalist (hmmm we use artifical herbs every day to cure/treat disease) or who heals through prayers. Not Harry Potter, Gandalf, Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, etc. Why? because these are FICTIONAL characters. Blanket statements that fantasy fiction is 'dangerous' by people like John Hagee, James Dobson, and their ilk is just scare tactics.
Harry Potter is no more evil than Mark Twain or 'The Catcher in the Rye'. In this, those who preach that and I will have to agree to disagree--fiction does not equal reality; and if your children are well grounded in reality, then the fiction will have no impact.
RE: Burn the Witch! by scottb :: NR7 :: on 12 August 2007
Looking at the original Hebrew, these verses actually only codemn those who practice ... evil sorcery.
Uh... you know there's no such thing as sorcery, right?
RE: Burn the Witch! by Anonymous :: NR0 :: on 13 August 2007
Uh... you know there's no such thing as sorcery, right?
As a Christian, I believe that it does exist and comes from Satan. But, I'm going to stay off of that point and say that you and I differ in opinion there.
However, taken outside religious faith, studies have shown that a deep-rooted belief in magic will cause the spells to have the intended effect on the victim. This psychological belief is often used to explain why things like curses, voodoo dolls, etc. actually do work--and in many cases I believe it is the truth. So, to answer your question-- even to a non-relgious person sorcery can indeed 'exist'. You don't have to be 'religious' to believe in Magic either.
Although, Anton Lavey says the opposite is true--that one who doesn't believe is more like to be affected because those who do believe will take precautions to guard against them.
RE: Burn the Witch! by ldsudduth :: NR7 :: on 13 August 2007
Darn it..did it again..thought I was logged in and wasn't...
'Where's my Game Fuel'?
RE: Burn the Witch! by scottb :: NR7 :: on 13 August 2007
As a Christian, I believe that it does exist and comes from Satan.
There's that wacky dualism again. I swear, you're about three hairs breadths from Marcionism.
Actually, most Christians don't believe in sorcery.
But, I'm going to stay off of that point and say that you and I differ in opinion there.
To call this merely "opinion" is a bit of an understatement. Since neither of us are relativists, it's clear we differ in realities here.
However, taken outside religious faith, studies have shown that a deep-rooted belief in magic will cause the spells to have the intended effect on the victim.
Mere psychology. And the degree to which it's effective is way overestimated. Such deep-rooted beliefs are quite uncommon. And it's clearly another reason why "faith" (an example of such a deep-rooted belief) is bad for you.
So, to answer your question-- even to a non-relgious person sorcery can indeed 'exist'. You don't have to be 'religious' to believe in Magic either.
Um, that doesn't follow, logically. Perhaps "religious" people are the only ones who can hold sufficient belief in magic for it to work, in which case you do have to be religious to believe in magic.
I'd even argue that's the case. People who are generally non-religious don't believe that nonsense. Note: I consider "new age" silliness like aromatherapy and crystals and such to be a religious belief.
Although, Anton Lavey says the opposite is true--that one who doesn't believe is more like to be affected because those who do believe will take precautions to guard against them.
That's a testable hypothesis. And almost certainly false, since the belief is critically necessary for the psychological effects to occur. In the absence of belief, LaVey's theory requires a non-psychological mechanism, which doesn't exist.
RE: Burn the Witch! by Occams :: NR6 :: on 14 August 2007
I believe in magic.
Magic is an artful illusion that cause you to believe something happened that did not really happen.
If the illusion is effective, that is magic. It exists, but it is only an illusion.
To illustrate Scottb's point.
I have read convincing accounts of Australian aboriginal natives who believe in magic that can kill them, and it sometimes does.
As part of their law an offender may be sung to death. The tribe does certain magic chants intended to make the person sicken and die. For those who really believe in the power, it works. There are accounts of native servants living in white man's houses in the nineteenth century dieing like this in spite of good medical treatment.
They even have a law enforcement officer called a "Kaditja Man" he will track and follow an offender until he dies. He uses special body paint and feathered boots so he leaves no tracks, but to the natives he is invisible.
I think lie detectors are modern magic
RE: Burn the Witch! by gnifyus :: NR7 :: on 12 August 2007
The thing I always found interesting was that every year, Harry Potter and gang always went home for Christmas break.
RE: Burn the Witch! by scottb :: NR7 :: on 13 August 2007
Haven't you noticed? Christmas is no more a religious holiday than Halloween. It has religious origins, but it's been pretty thoroughly secularized. The most recognizable symbol for Christmas is Santa, not the infant Jesus.
RE: Burn the Witch! by gnifyus :: NR7 :: on 13 August 2007
Yes, I remember thinking, "I bet she forgot that it even was supposed to be a religious holiday when she wrote the first book.
RE: Burn the Witch! by Eye.Of.Sage :: NR6 :: on 13 August 2007
You guys were thinking while reading Hairy Porter? Wow, I wasn't thinking at all, my mind was like completely blank when I was reading that book.
RE: Burn the Witch! by VnutZ :: NR8 :: on 13 August 2007
The thing I always found interesting was that every year, Harry Potter and gang always went home for Christmas break.
Duh ... they were going to celebrate the coming harvest!
RE: Burn the Witch! by gnifyus :: NR7 :: on 13 August 2007
J.K. Rowling seems to have carefully sidestepped any mention of churches or religion even though Christmas, and Easter break are mentioned in the books.
RE: Burn the Witch! by Bortnyk :: NR6 :: on 13 August 2007
It was a concious decision I imagine. If the target audience was kids/ teens, mentioning a religion might have alienated potential consumers. The witchcraft thing was issue enough with the fundementalist crowd, throwing in a wizarding religion or making all the wizards and witches members of the Church of England would have driven people nuts or even hurt sales for no good reason.
RE: Burn the Witch! by Eye.Of.Sage :: NR6 :: on 12 August 2007
like here?
Oui!!! Do you know where else I saw it? Here maybe?
Of course I'm joking, I love when Hairy destroyed Voltmort. Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with fantasy books. But there is something wrong with religious fanatics from the clips you have shown.
RE: Burn the Witch! by VnutZ :: NR8 :: on 13 August 2007
I love when Hairy destroyed Voltmort.
Damn ... I was rooting for him.
RE: Burn the Witch! by Eye.Of.Sage :: NR6 :: on 13 August 2007
Shouldn't these 'good' parents care about something more important about their kids? Oh I don't know, maybe why kids are listening to music by people like Manson, or why does the Church of Satan exist, or maybe why are the U.S. high school drop-out rates rising?
Oh sure, blame it on the Wizard and burn the books that might actually teach some moral values.