There is a growing concern among conservative blogs that Google News has begun systematically censoring one side of the political opinion spectrum by removing right-leaning web sites from their news service. Blogs such as New Media Journal, The Jawa Report, and MichNews.com are reporting being dropped from the internet's most widely used news search engine.
In response to articles critical of Islamic terrorism, some websites claim they were told, 'Upon recent review, we’ve found that your site contains hate speech,' and that Google News does 'not allow articles and sources expressly promoting hate speech viewpoints.' Other sites, such as Outside the Beltway, have been dropped from Google News without any reason given, and others such as Riehl World News that were not indexed by Google News have been dropped from Google Web, again without any notification. Some conservatives dub these actions as a result of Google's liberal political funding and its relationship with MoveOn.
Has Google begun censoring conservative political opinion? And if so, should one entity have so much control over the flow of information on the internet?



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An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 24 May 2006
Some folks, usually of the far-left fringe tin-foil hat wearing crowd, proclaim loudly that the "Man" is busy suppressing their opinions and "facts", oblivious to the fact that if someone is actually listening who isn't behind a two-way mirror or holding the business end of a firing squad, then they are not, in fact, being suppressed. I find these wackos to be useful idiots. If you can still here them yakking, then the "Man" hasn't begun squashing dissent.
What happens, however, if the voices being silenced aren't far-left wackos, but conservative to far-right wackos? Is anybody on the other end listening for those voices in the wilderness?
On another note, I find it bitterly ironic that for years we've been hearing about the dangers of the Evil Corporations from the left side of the opinion fence and how They Will Take Over- and now it appears that an Evil Corporation has begun to purge opinions they don't like- and those opinions are conservative/right wing.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 24 May 2006
for some reason the right's nutcases are right in the main stream media.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 24 May 2006
Okay, THAT'S funny. FOX has it's own network, and is a major player in the news media. I also defy you to give actual, reasonable proof that they slant their news coverage, any more than anyone else. Yes, they have a conservative editorial slant, just like CNN has a liberal editorial slant, and at least FOX didn't suppress news just to keep in the good graces of an evil dictator.
What the news post was talking about was your average blogger, like you or me (if you have a blog anyways). WorldNetDaily is a conservative news organization, not a blog. They don't count, although it is always possible Google might pick on them next. And ironically enough, Michelle Malkin can't even get on Google News. Go ahead and News Google her- you get hits that mention her, but oddly enough, not her actual blog. Dude. Again, I ask- did you read the news post?
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by Brandon :: NR9 :: on 24 May 2006
I guess the world is turning to blogs for news, but they don't seem like real news sources, so I don't know why any of them would be included on Google News. Are liberal comparable liberal blogs included? In any case, if someone is looking for a blog, they can (and should) use a normal Google search, which turns up Michelle Malkin's blog just fine.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 24 May 2006
As far as I know, no Liberal Blogs have been banished from Google News or Google Search indexes. The thing that disturbs me about all of this is: Google absolutely does censor search result in China, and they seem to have decided that criticism of a religion (Islam) and it's followers is "hate speech." It would be like markmcb banning starm due to "hate speech". The Internet has been a boon to the free flow of ideas since it's inception. I dislike one entity having so much control over the flow of information.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by maodeshou :: NR4 :: on 27 May 2006
I have several points, not all of which relate specifically to this comment, but to the overall conversation. My response to the Google post in general comes last.
First, on FOX's slant, I'd refer everbody to this study by the progam on international policy attitudes, which shows that people who get most of their news from FOX are significantly more likely to have certain misperceptions about the war in Iraq than those who watch CNN, and far more likely than those who get most of their news from NPR or PBS. Now, there are almost certainly other factors involved there, but I do think the results say something about FOX. You might be right about their actual news coverage, as distinguished from their punditry, but really I think the key problem with the channel is precisely that coverage makes up a very small part of what they broadcast, and punditry (e.g. Hannity or O'Reily) makes up the lion's share.
Second, I think it's worth pointing out that at least some of what Google apparently objected to was not simply criticism of Islam. I didn't go look at all the stories, but I did look at several; one of the posts Google apparently had an issue with on MichNews contains the following:
America should deport all Muslims and invite no Muslims into the country. Muslims don’t integrate. Europe is realizing this. America is now inviting the disease. Muslims are apart unto themselves because of their cultic nature. They are not a politic. They are not a culture. They are a cult based upon a killing book—the Koran.
That's not criticism, that's offensive, stupid bigotry. I don't think that fact actually has any bearing on the rightness or wrongness on Google's action, which I'll get to in a second, but I think we should be clear that this isn't "news" in any meaningful sense, nor is it, at least in some cases, merely critical.
Finally, and more to the point, as I've already suggested I don't think that the content of the posts has much to do with whether Google should be picking and choosing. The question we have to ask, given Google's predominance, is whether it's their prerogative any longer to decide to take an action like this. If Google becomes, even by default, the way that people find information online, then their decision to remove these sources from their results is in effect a decision to deny, or at least limit, access to certain kinds and certain sources of information. The fact that some of what these sites say about particular issues is offensive (and, as the above quote demonstrates, it is) doesn't change the fact that removing them from results impacts only one side of the political spectrum in practice, if not by intent, and that's a problem.
I don't accept the category of "hate speech," as I think it forces us to make decisions we're not equipped to make about the intent of the speaker and the impact of what's said, and I think it's an imposition of free speech that we can't afford to make. The question we have to find an answer to now is whether Google (a) is simply a private company providing a service for profit, and thus entitled to make whatever calls it sees fit in order to maximize that profit– including removing content it thinks will offend its customers– or (b) has, by virtue of market dominance, become a de facto public service that has a responsibility to provide fair and equal access to information, regardless of slant. And that's a question that's much more complicated than any sort of "left vs. right" issues.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 27 May 2006
I absolutely agree with you about Google and it's role in our society. It doesn't matter about what slant their apparent censorship takes, what matters is that they seem to be deciding what people should be able to find on the 'net. As I've stated, they already censor web searches for communist China.
You have stated that MichNews' comments on Islam and Muslims are offensive, stupid bigotry, yet how are they substantially different than what starm has written on OmniNerd? The only difference is that angry rants and invective against Christians is politically correct, but the same rants directed against Islam is not. Criticism of- or even hatred- of a religion is not racism. Maybe the argument could be made that it was if all Muslims were Arabs, but the fact is the majority of the world's Muslims are not Arab- they are Persian, African, Indian, Indo-Europeans, Asian, etc. If folks can attack Christians and their words are not considered "hate speech" or bigoted, than it has to be the same for all religions. Either it's all okay, or none is. The slippery slope begins when you talk about Jews and Judaism. Judaism is the religion practised by the Jews. All Jews are, well Jewish. So, if one would attack Judaism, that's a religion. If you attack Jews, that's racism. Right? I think I've got that straight.
I perused the study by the PIPA and found things they stated as unequivocal fact that can be disputed, but that's another post. I also do not trust polls, they can be too easily slanted one way or the other, although I can not for the life of me wonder why someone would slant a poll, as it has been my experience that most people are unlikely to go "oh, well 75% of Americans think X, so I'll stop thinking Y and go with X." Or maybe they do. Plus, at least FOX never felt the need to ignore news in order to keep in the good graces of a dictator.
I also give a rat's ass what the rest of the world thinks, one way or another. The rest of world started WWI, stood by and let Hitler do as he pleased until he held Europe, was either communist or did nothing to stop the spread of communism- all the while hoping we'd take care of the problem while at the same time criticizing us. The rest of the world is tin-pot dictators, tyrants, or simply corrupt. The rest of the world rails against us over Iraq yet does nothing about the Sudan, or expects us to do something as long as we don't use force. The rest of the world criticizes Israel, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East that doesn't even have oil. The rest of the world gives a rats ass about the rest of the world. The rest of the world will merrily continue dancing towards the precipice, blaming the US for all of the world's ills, until the find themselves hanging by their fingertips over the edge, and once again they will expect us to pull them back. And we will, 'cause that's how we roll.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by maodeshou :: NR4 :: on 28 May 2006
I'm not familiar with the comments on Omninerd that you're talking about, but no, I don't think it matters at all which religious group we're talking about. It's neither more nor less legitimate to paint all Christians with the same brush than it is all Muslims. I think that some people in America feel free to attack Christianity because it's familiar, it's "our" religion, while at the same time arguing that we must withold judgment on Islam because it's "foreign," it's "their" religion. In a way I see the logic, but I think that's a false dichotomy that just makes the problem worse. If we could stop seeing Islam as unalterably alien (there are a whole lot of Muslims in America, after all), we might be able to have a more productive dialogue. All of which is beside the point anyway; we were talking about freedom of speech and I will defend the right of these "conservative" bloggers to say what they've said just as strongly as I'll defend the right of "liberal" bloggers to say their piece, whether or not it offends me.
It's also worth pointing out, as you do, that it is in fact possible to criticize some aspects of a particular religion– or more accurately, as is the case with Islam today, the particular interpretation and practice of that religion– without impugning and entire faith with all the faithful. The problem with the post I quoted is precisely that it failed to do that. Thus my use of the word "stupid." Anyway, it's prefectly legitimate and even necessary to attack terrorism in the name of religion, and to attack particular interpretations of religious texts that lend themselves to such uses. We should be saying that Islamic fundamentalism is a problem, and we can do so without conflating "Islamic Fundamentalism" with "Islam" in general. I'm not trying to imply a precise analogy here- there isn't one- but it's also perfectly legitimate to criticize Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson for their own fundamentalism, a particular interpretation of scripture that they use to argue for the limitation of women's rights, among other things. And, again, we can and should do so without pretending that all Christians are anything like Pat Robertson.
As for the part about what the rest of the world thinks: I'm not sure how this is related to the topic, but I think it's worth observing that for the "rest of the world," by which I'm guessing you mean mostly the Europeans, it's not a choice between doing something and doing nothing; it's a choice between actions, like the invasion of Iraq, that they think will do more harm than good, and those actions that will do more good than harm. The problem with that view, of course, is that sometimes being cautious results in doing a very little good while allowing a very great harm. But I don't think they usually see the U.S. as "the problem" so much as taking actions that aren't part of the solution.
Most of Europe, I think, sees a "Western" intervention in Sudan as a recipe for disaster, because it can be so easily (not to say rightly) painted as imperialism. Hence the emphasis on action by the AU. They're attempting to take the long view, in which Darfur is a terrible but ultimately transitory conflict, while the idea of the West as imperialist is pervasive, durable, dangerous, and already intractable, and so doesn't need any help. The obvious critique of this view is that if tens of thousands of people are dying, then the short term matters.
Anyway (and here's my attempt to relate this whole discussion back to the topic of free speech and censorship), I'm going to have to disagree with the sort of "go it alone" kind of thinking that seems to be in evidence in your last paragraph, and say that what the rest of the world thinks does matter, if not for the reasons that usually get talked about. Free speech isn't just a value in and of itself; it has value primarily because speech and communication are instruments of change, and to restrict them is to deny certain people that instrument, and in so doing make change less likely. I think that the way to achieve progress is with maximum information, maximum communication, maximum thought. It is foolish to ignore ideas, and so foreclose options, because of where they come from or who created them, and it's foolish to deny ourselves information about the people (or nations) with which we must interact, be they allies or enemies. We did not understand Iraq, and that has hurt us. We do not understand Iran, and that may hurt us in the future. The way to move toward such understanding is to listen to all the ideas we can, and that requires the freedom for those ideas to be expressed. Indeed, our understanding is certainly limited by the fact that the people of Iran, or of Syria, or of North Korea cannot make themselves heard, forcing us to do a certain amount of guessing. The problem I have with the quote in my original post:
America should deport all Muslims and invite no Muslims into the country. Muslims don’t integrate. Europe is realizing this. America is now inviting the disease. Muslims are apart unto themselves because of their cultic nature. They are not a politic. They are not a culture. They are a cult based upon a killing book—the Koran.
is precisely that its purpose is to limit thought, to make it seem unnecessary, to provide the illusion that we have all the information we need. Free speech is also necessary to assure that there is sufficient information out there to make it clear what an idiot this person is. Point being that what the world thinks does matter- not because we need anybody's good opinion (though that sometimes helps move things along), but because knowing what the world thinks and why is the only way we'll ever have any idea what the hell needs to be done, to protect our own interests as well as everyone else's.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 28 May 2006
I agree with you entirely about free speech as outlined in your last paragraph. I should also refine my statement, that I may not give a rat's ass what the rest of the world thinks, but it is important to know what they are thinking, (if that makes any kind of sense) as you said.
The Google issue seems to be part of a larger trend, and that is to attempt to obfuscate, drown out, or silence views and opinions that you don't agree with. It has been happening at college campuses, were students will disrupt an invited speaker, it happens at protests- the Tookie Williams vigil springs to mind, where an older man with a Christian sign was shoved away by a group of pro-Tookie activists who loudly chanted "racist, sexist, anti-gay: right-wing bigot go away!" It happened in Europe over the Dreaded Cartoons of Blasphemy- which brings me another example: one of the excuses used by Muslim groups to justify their attempts to stifle free speech was that Europe didn't have it to begin with because people weren't "allowed" to "question" the Holocaust. When I first heard this idiotic reasoning, I though "that's because the Holocaust actually happened- what's to 'question?'" but then I realized that these idiots had a point- though not in the way they meant. There is a reason free speech must include the freedom to say and espouse ideas that are reprehensible, idiotic, and vile- it is so that such ideas can be discussed, dissected, eviscerated, and disprove out in the light of day.
Of course, some folks like to prevent the other side from being heard because they are afraid to debate the issues like reasonable people- and perhaps lose.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 28 May 2006
First, I never suggested anything like christian deportation. All I ever said is that either the religion should change some of its official stances and doctrine to become moral or else that we should discourage people from adhering and try to diminish its influence.
Second, it's ridiculous to consider my O-Nerd comments as candidates for google news. The day Google posts my o-nerd comments as news will be the day I stop using their news site.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 28 May 2006
Um...somehow, you keep missing the point...
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 28 May 2006
The only difference is that angry rants and invective against Christians is politically correct, but the same rants directed against Islam is not.
Well my point was that the above isn't true. The comment was clearly more offensive and hatefull towards muslims than I ever was towards christians. I mean I couldn't be, my whole family and relatives are christians.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 28 May 2006
Okay, dude- I was only using your attitudes towards Christians as an example. Let me put it this way: you said:
All I ever said is that either the religion (Christianity) should change some of its official stances and doctrine to become moral or else that we should discourage people from adhering and try to diminish its influence
which is not considered to be "racist" or "hate speech"- but if you had said:
"All I ever said is that either Islam should change some of its official stances and doctrine to become moral or else that we should discourage people from adhering and try to diminish its influence"
then suddenly it's a different ballgame. Suddenly it is "racist" and "hate speech". I wasn't picking on you for your views on Christianity, I was making the point that you should be allowed to express those views without fear of censorship, and as such a person making the same statements about Islam, or Hindu...uh...ism or Zoroastrianism or Animism or what have you should also have the same right. As for Google News- I am of the opinion that if they allow any opinion blogs as news, it should all be allowed, hate speech or no. That or stick strictly to news. Keep in mind that Google has also begun purging blogs from their regular search archives.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 25 May 2006
Some additional things about Google News: Israel National News says: "The US Department of Treasury issued a press release identifying Al-Manar, the media arm of the Hizbullah terrorist network, as well as an Nour Radio and the Lebanese Media Group, as a 'specially designated global terrorist entity'", yet Al-Manar’s repeatedly anti-Israel, anti-Semitic news is available through all of Google’s services. Yet the previously mentioned consrvative blogs were banned because of nebulous "hate speech" that Google refuses to define.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by PowerPointSamurai :: NR7 :: on 24 May 2006
I'll forgive your ignorance here, Starm, because evidently you didn't know that Fox is demonstrably slightly left of center, as demonstrated by Jeffrey Miliyo, an economist and public policy scholar. Meanwhile public TV and radio are actually more conservative. Do we need to go back to Political Compass to shed this baseless and damaging baggage of falsely labeling each other? I also think most people's stated political leanings absolutely hilarious after listening to what they think about issues for a few minutes.
I also thought it was extremely entertaining watching the Slashdot crowd fall over themselves to label those blogs as "hate speach", or that this isn't censorship because it's not a government agency doing it, while those same people have banged on endlessly about government wiretapping or any kind of perceived "censorship" of their pet sites, or wailed and gnashed their teeth about how country fans "censored" the Dixie Chicks. In short, the hypocracy in that forum is staggering, even for Slashdot.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 25 May 2006
Okay that study is complete liquid crap, you can find rebuttles on the Language Log blog, look for the ones about how they introduced a bias by multiplying probabilies with the ADA score.
anyways, just to try to introduce some reality in here and show everyone that liberals aren't the anti-war zealots you've been brainwashed they are, read the comments of this dKos post
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 25 May 2006
What in the hell are you even talking about? As far as I can tell, no one has even talked about the war in this thread, just about the actual news post. I also find it highly ironic that you jump to defend liberality by essentially saying liberals aren't all knee-jerk kool-aid drinkers after posting a knee- jerk shot at conservative blogs and news services.
I do happen to agree with your contention that what has been referred to as modern day "liberalism" actual isn't very liberal. In fact what is touted today in America as "liberal" tends to be very illiberal. That's why sometimes I'm confused when you use neo-lib "talking points" (bradsmith should get a nickel everytime that phrase is used on ONerd) on occasion.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 25 May 2006
whatever man, Oreilly Coulter and the likes are complete nutcases spreading hate yet they are right in the mainstream media. Kos is considered the far left fringe and as I've shown they are very reasonable especially compared to what they are made to look by the media. I think its normal that a few blogs which spread right wing hate not be considered news by google, is dKos considered news by google? I've never seen it on google news.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 25 May 2006
What, exactly, is this "hate" that is being spread? I hear the term bandied about, but no one ever seems to be able to pin down exactly what kind of "hate" these people spread. And the issue isn't that a few right-wing blogs aren't considered news worthy by Google, it's that they once were, but were yanked because of the nebulous "hate speech" claim, which seems to be centered around articles critical of Islam. Again I use the example of markmcb banning you for "hate speech".
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 25 May 2006
There are thousands of examples, but just on top of my head, I clearly remember Coulter advocating the US invation of us, Canada, on some Fox talk show.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 26 May 2006
You mean this quote here:"Coulter said that Canadians 'better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent...We could have taken them over so easily.'" Is that really hate speech, or just arrogance? Are we even on the same wavelength about the definition of hate speech? Or is the phrase "hate speech" simply used to dismiss someones position/opinion without having to actually debate their points using facts and logic?
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 26 May 2006
Well I never said "hate speech" but I can understand why google would not consider her news even for a blog, yet she gets into mainstream tv.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 26 May 2006
True, but so does Al Sharpton.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by LordDilly :: NR8 :: on 25 May 2006
Oh, and another thing: if we've been brainwashed that liberals are anti -war zealots, the brain washing has been done by liberals themselves. Case. In. Point. And another point. Buncha points here. Doesn't help that celebs help in the brainwashing either, with stuff like this, and this. Dude, seriously, you need to lay off the brainwashing thing. Did Christian's attack your father's village and brainwash people?
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 25 May 2006
First. I don't think these groups represent mainstream liberals, they represent a minority of socialist-leaning liberals and pure socialists. Second, liberals do tend do be against the current implementation of the Iraq war and are skeptical of the reasons it was started to begin with. This doesn't mean they are against war in general.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by PowerPointSamurai :: NR7 :: on 25 May 2006
Umm, ok, so you are using a blog to refute a scientific study, of which the article I linked to was but a synopsis for us lay people? There's this thing called scientific peer review, and I'm afraid the Language Log Blog doesn't qualify and the bias you describe isn't explained away quite so easily.
As for your second comment, are you talking to me or do you have me confused with someone else? I have repeatedly demonstrated to you that liberals often have a cause for going to war, which you refuted heatedly despite the total justification for those cases (i.e. Wilson in WWI, Roosevelt in WWII for example). I have not painted liberals as anti-war zealots and have to wonder where you came up with that. Moreover, if you read my comment again, you will see that I say these labels are being thrown around quite a lot without people having a decent understanding of what they mean. By the way, in my book, if you are, or style yourself, as a liberal or conservative you are by definition out of line with the center and basically not in the best interests of the people. The government is supposed to strike a balance between order and liberty. But alas, Western politics is becoming very polarized with people more interested in name calling and stabbing each other in the back for personal/political gain than actually acting in the interests of their electorate, and sadly, the people are eating it up and egging it on. Anything more to say about me "liberal bashing"?
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by starm_ :: NR0 :: on 26 May 2006
I got confused, I thought you were Dilly. If I get the time i'll find the holes in the article myself, I've seen the paper its like 70 pages long. It only take a little common sense to see it doesn't make any sense. The american media today is nothing but transparent right wing propaganda. Most bush suporters seem to be blind to that. Some are so blind that, for example, this site seems to be using a Steven Colbert's O'reilly impersonation (also found here) thinking its serious and not realizing its suposed to be a mockery of the right wing.
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by PowerPointSamurai :: NR7 :: on 26 May 2006
It's kind of funny, actually, because most people in this country will tell you that the media is very left leaning, except for some that argue that by virtue of advertising, they tend to be pro-big business. I know a lot of military people aren't happy with many of the reporters they talk to or meet, but that doesn't necessarilly mean that either the reporter or the Soldier have ideological differences. It's mainly a byproduct of the fact that very few reporters know anyone in the military and also tend to run with a certain crowd in college (which may or may not have an ideological identity one way or another).
Anyway, yes, I would certainly prefer YOUR analysis of what's wrong with the paper.
Also, little side trivia note on the mockery thing...did you know Billy Idol got his start mocking punks, but they liked it so much his career took off as one?
RE: An Actual Knock at the Door? by coderjones :: NR0 :: on 26 May 2006
I wouldn't find it disturbing for Google, Omninerd or any well known entity to filter out extremist contest from any side of the spectrum in certain cases. I wouldn't want my children to read the news and end up finding articles such as "How Has Islam Enriched Your Life?" just as much as I wouldn't want them to find anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, anti-Zoroastrian/Parsi or anything that targets a whole group of people based on the actions of the few or just because they have an illogical dislike of those people. At the same time I wouldn't want them to come across extremist points of view on abortion, communism, hate-the-hater retaliations or any stereotypical Leftish position.
If Google is still providing access to "objectionable" content through their search engine then they are not trying to stop freedom of speech. However, filtering content in a specific forum is not objectionable. Personally, I find it the responsible thing to do.