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RE: Why wouldn't it be a religion? Yes, but ....

Comment a comment by Ares Craft[Censored] (EyeOfSage), published on 20 March 2010
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I think it’s very easy, growing up in the Western world, to think that religions necessarily imply a “higher power”. I suspect a lot of Americans assume that the Buddha is a kind of savior-figure, but for Buddhists.

No no no, that’s not it. One of the essential difference between Buddhism and Confucianism is that Buddhist talks about after life. That’s what makes Confucianism not a religion. Buddhist talk about what happens after you die and the consequences of things. Confucianism talks about the now, they never say anything about the afterlife. They may still believe in Buddhism or Islam, or Christianity. The whole structure of Buddhism is very much a religion: they have monks that recite their holy text, they have prayers, they pray to Buddha or maybe other Gods, they also do exorcism. If by that definition, we should also get Kant temples.

Maybe here’s where you get confused, people worship Confucius as a God not because of Confucianism itself. Asians tends to worship their ancestors, and you’ll see them having temples and statute of other historic famous figures as well.

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No no no, that’s not it.

I think you miss Scott’s main point. Most definitions of religion are simply about a belief set that provides a code for living. Gods and an afterlife are optional.

Buddhism is one of the worlds great religions. There can not be much doubt of that given its infrastructure, history, and influence.

I think Confucius was more about philosophy than religion, but it is a fine line there too.

Well, I did already agree with you that I don’t really consider Confucianism a religion, but let me continue in the role of Devil’s Advocate, here…

Buddhist talk about what happens after you die and the consequences of things.

Depends on the Buddhist. The Zen schools don’t usually go in for that sort of thing, for example.

The whole structure of Buddhism is very much a religion: they have monks that recite their holy text, they have prayers, they pray to Buddha or maybe other Gods, they also do exorcism.

Much of that depends on your interpretation.

Each day across the country, schoolteachers lead students in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. That ritualized recitation doesn’t turn it into a religious exercise.

Buddhism is viewed by many of its practitioners as a kind of “mind exercise”—a way of bringing about a mental discipline and strength the way that calisthenics can be used to bring about a physical discipline and strength. Recitation of the Sutras is often used as an aid in concentrating the mind. Few Westerners would recognize this exercise as “prayer”, though it’s often called such by casual observers, due to its superficial similarity.

Buddhists don’t have gods, except to the extent that many Buddhists also adopt elements of other religions. In Japan, Shinto and Buddhism are not usually considered mutually exclusive, though Shinto includes some recognizably polytheistic elements among the animism and ancestor worship.

Maybe here’s where you get confused, people worship Confucius as a God not because of Confucianism itself.

Nope. I wasn’t confused on that point at all. Similarly, though, Buddhists don’t worship Buddha, except in the same sense of ancestor worship.

So then, essentially, the difference between Confucianism and Buddhism, for you, lies in the fact that Buddhists have extensive rituals, while Confucians don’t.

I don’t see that that’s really an indicator of a religion—Congress has extensive rituals for the open and close of sessions, for reading new bills, and so on, yet it’s not a religion. Similarly, the whole process carried out in a courtroom is ritualized—reading the charges, picking a jury, swearing in witnesses, the order of testimony, the raising of objections, submitting motions, jury deliberations and verdicts: they’re all governed by rituals.

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