RE: Where to start learning, and government support of religion
So, you respond to what you think is intellectual lazinesss with your own laziness. Most critics would never profess to describe and/or define every aspect scientology and suggest that you get the net and read both sides. However, what we talking about here is the organisation and the policy driven actions of scientology, not the belief system.
Nobody cares what the individuals believe. However, when you entangle the belief system in with your church policies then there is an overlap. For example, in their appleal on the Wollersheim v. Scientology case they tried to claim that their “Fair Game” policy was a core practice…. like a religious rite. Yes, they actually expected to win an appeal by trying to tell a court that they should be allowed to trick, lie to and destroy utterly, anyone who attacks scientology, because it was “protected” as “religious expression”.
You see, it is not the critic who generally brings religion into the argument, it is always the scientologist because they expect to be able to hide their abuses under some sort of default forcefield of religiosity. They want to drag you down that convoluted route because they expect to garner sympathy from the broader religious community. As Admiral Ackbar says: “It’s a trap”.
Today in the newsmedia you will read reports of scientology trying to stop a the showing of German drama film based on a true story of a scientologist (who approves of the film), claiming that the film attacks their “religious beliefs”. They do this almost everytime and it is wearing thinner and thinner each time they do it.
Australian Senators, under controlling party voting, fell for the scientology bait this week in round #1 of the push for a inquiry. The arugments were typically non-sequitur and not unexpected. One of them even “godwinned” himself (like some people have here) by using the Nazi persecution/extermination of Jews as an argument. It gave the chance for the newsmedia, who saw right through it, to complain and come out in favour of Senator Xenophon’s call for an inquiry into the abusive cult of scientology. Round #2 in the Sentate in coming weeks will be different now that many of the the stupid arguments are out of the way.
Get this into your heads: It is NOT a religious persecution issue. Such overbearing sophistry is tired and weak. Stick to the crux of the matter.
As for tax breaks, they certainly should be questioned when the actual “non-profit” status of a particular organisation is highly questionable. Here’s basically what scientology does: They sell courses, books, CD’s, DVDs etc at exhorbitant prices, all as part of the persons wallet-shrinking path to spiritual elightenment yet the profits are creamed off and sent to the mother church in the USA (they do this even if the local organisation is in debt). Tranfers between international scientology organiations are done by “purchasing” non-tangible items such as fees to use certain “religious technology” or whatever other typical scheme that many for-profit organisations use to shuttle monies around the world to avoid local taxation/scrutiny. At worst it is laundering and at best it is tax avoidance. You’d think that scientology would be penalised in the USA for receiving large quanties of monies from around the globe but over there they enjoy even less government scrutiny and oversight.
Also, to end the persecution argument, if Australian senator Xenophon was attacking the “religion” of scientology then he would also be going after all the non-official scientologists who left the trademarked church of scientology and who practice on their own or in small groups. He isn’t though and like he said in his original address to the senate, “There are no limits on what you can believe, but there are limits on how you can behave. It’s called the law and no one is above it”.
All the victims want is fairness.


RE: Where to start learning, and government support of religion by Anonymous
Well said. I’d add, if this was about religious beliefs, then victims could simply go to the police, or courts of law, as some in Australian Parliament have recently offered.
Somehow they have not gotten the memo. It is precisely because they cannot go to the police or the courts that both victims and public have overwhelmingly voiced their demands for investigations and inquiries, worldwide.
You might as well tell an individual to go up against the mafia, or a multinational well funded industry, like the insurance or tobacco industry.
This is about corrupt, criminal abuses, fraud, harrassment, human rights violations and more by a well funded cancerous corporation. The only pragmatic approach is to ask our government officials to investigate, act, and protect their people. It’s what they are paid and elected to do, and it is very long overdue. thePod
RE: Where to start learning, and government support of religion by Anonymous
clearly this is a Barry response…..not only by the style, but also the quick response since he would receive an email if Brandon responded to his response. I suspect the anon below this is probably Scottb as well. Afraid to let everyone know what we already know? That you don’t really like Brandon??? You (Barry) and scottb are such cowards!
RE: Where to start learning, and government support of religion by Brandon
So, you respond to what you think is intellectual lazinesss with your own laziness.
It seems you’re confusing the subject of my comment with the subject of the original post. (They aren’t the same.)
Most critics would never profess to describe and/or define every aspect scientology
Of course not, but they can still choose what sources (if any) to use.
For example, in their appleal on the Wollersheim v. Scientology case they tried to claim that their “Fair Game” policy was a core practice…. like a religious rite.
I hadn’t heard of the Fair Game policy, so I read a little on Wikipedia about it. It sounds like Hubbard used some strong language that was misunderstood and later clarified. I didn’t read anything that indicated the need for further government intervention. (Or were there people breaking the law and not being punished somewhere?)
Today in the newsmedia you will read reports of scientology trying to stop a the showing of German drama film based on a true story of a scientologist (who approves of the film), claiming that the film attacks their “religious beliefs”. They do this almost everytime and it is wearing thinner and thinner each time they do it.
I don’t see the problem. Whether or not I agree with them (and I probably wouldn’t), the government doesn’t need to get involved unless they’re breaking the law.
At worst it is laundering and at best it is tax avoidance.
So why aren’t they in trouble for these crimes?
they enjoy even less government scrutiny and oversight
Just so you know, I think government scrutiny and oversight are rarely a good idea.
It’s called the law and no one is above it.
Agreed (at least in the way you meant it).