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RE: Discussing Book of Mormon anachronisms
I’ve been drunk, literally, man times. I don’t drink anymore. But even though drinking is a very simple way to describe a reaction within your body that’s hard to relate to without ever experiencing intoxication, it was the closest comparable sensation I could think of at the time.
I think this is another weak analogy. I agree that it’s hard to relate to the experience of intoxication without having experienced it oneself, I don’t think it’s impossible. And more importantly, I don’t think it’s at all relevant to understanding the truth of the experience.
Alcohol intoxication causes slurred speech, impaired balance, poor coordination, flushed face, reddened eyes, reduced inhibition, and erratic behavior. Often, the subject is unaware of these things, while those nearby and sober often find them hard to ignore.
Of course, nobody usually suggests that anything “transcendent” happens as a result of inebriation, so maybe another interesting parallel would be cannabis intoxication. Cannabis users often report “altered states of consciousness”, often with mystical or religious import.
The medically recognizable effects clearly include euphoria, relaxation, happiness, a tendency towards introspection and meta-cognitive experiences, increased sensuality and libido, disruption of linear memory and sometimes paranoia. Given all those factors, it’s not very hard to see how some people can interpret the experience as “transcendent”, when it’s entirely mundane.
I believe what I believe primarily because of personal experiences that unfortunately cannot be a source of “truth” to another person, but I’m okay with that, it makes me a better and happier person in the end.
You still haven’t really answered the point that the non-transferrability of this “truth” also means that it cannot really be a “source of truth” to you, yourself.
As I’ve said, I don’t really doubt that you had an unusual experience of some sort, I doubt your interpretation of it. By accepting it and all of the inferences that depend on it without also being able to test it, you’re essentially declaring yourself infallible.
RE: Discussing Book of Mormon anachronisms by Dachande
I’m not declaring myself infallible at all. Though I do believe that the few powerful experiences I’ve had are infallible TO me and me alone.
I’m totally okay with you thinking I interpreted those experiences wrong.
The funny thing about the topic of non-transferability is that unless experienced, someone would have to “take my word” for it. That for me, previously was the case in the example that Joseph Smith gave before the First Vision, I believe I shared that with you before. I previously had to have “faith” that his description was correct and true. That is until I had the nearly identical experience, with a different end result. I wasn’t on some search about his experience nor was I studying it, but I’m sure you’ll say I simply related mine to his in an effort to rationalize it to myself. There was no need to rationalize, it was quite clear. But that is the best way I can possibly attempt to explain how it can in any way be a “transferred truth.”
I don’t know if you’ve ever been sick or had an infection that’s almost killed you, I actually almost died last year from a staph infection, holy crap that sucked. The feeling of being completely helpless and unable to control your body as you would in any other moment (even drunk) is extremely frustrating. I was laid up for 5 days in a bed barely able to turn my head most of the time. That was a constant struggle and internal pain I felt for days. The previous experience was just as powerful, not nearly as painful, and was an outside force, a lot like being squeezed.
Never smoked marijuana, so I wouldn’t know what it’s like. I’ve had morphine before, it only killed pain, no other enjoyable side effects and I’ve had valium before for dental surgery, I remember falling down a lot and not much else after that.
Yerevan is an interesting place. It was funny, my first night here, I ran into some Mormon missionaries. My friend I’m here to see said she’s never seen them in the six years she’s lived here, hah hah.