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RE: Academic Wank and the conservative backlash

Comment a comment by scottb, published on 20 November 2009
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I disagree that he’s “preaching to the choir”, here.

There’s a substantial difference between what you’re calling a “symbol”—the intellectual tools of mathematics, for example—and what he’s calling one. What you’re talking about are more properly called “signs”, or “signifiers”.

Mathematical signs are important in what they reference, but completely unimportant in themselves. Symbols, like flags, take on emotional significance in themselves, having little or nothing to do with the thing for which the symbol stands.

The soldier who dies trying to prevent a flag from being captured is a good example. The flag, as a sign, is nothing more than an indicator of a country—presumably, in this case, which country currently holds a piece of ground in the battle. The capture of the flag is an emotionally significant symbol of loss. A soldier who risks his life to retrieve the flag while knowing that the ground will still be captured has missed the point of the sign.

But that emotional investment is pretty real. Consider the rhetoric from the Catholics last year when a student at the University of Central Florida kept the communion wafer he got at a mass.

Signs are unimportant—flags, holy crackers, or mathematical operators. They’re tools to help us think. But the line between thinking and feeling can be very fluid in some regions.

Davidcgore seems to favor the sort of continental school of philosophy that sees every sign as an emotionally powerful symbol, and seeks to assign even more power to them than they actually possess. It makes the error of mistaking the signifier for the signified at two levels: first, mistaking the original signifier, then mistaking signifiers as a class.

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There’s a substantial difference between what you’re calling a “symbol”—the intellectual tools of mathematics, for example—and what he’s calling one. … Mathematical signs are important in what they reference, but completely unimportant in themselves.

I have to partially disagree. Yes, the formula “F = m a” has no inherent meaning, yet the symbols it contains influence your thought processes. For instance, as you are quite well aware, the symbol “F” in this case is force, but if you go to similar area that uses “F” there is some cognitive dissonance associated with changing how you think about it. Admittedly, this goes away to a large extent with training, but I ran into something earlier this week where my labeling of a group representation caused me to attribute properties to it that did not exist. While a symbol in mathematics is merely a placeholder/label, we have to take care in how we label things to ensure self-consistency so we don’t introduce errors from mistaking what a symbol represents. (Incidentally, this bit my adviser in the ass last week, so I guess I was due.)

Don’t get me wrong, I think you are correct in your assertion that the line between an object and its symbol can, and does, become blurred in most people’s minds, and that this does cause serious issues. But, mathematics is not immune to it.

Scott,

In making my "preaching to the choir comment I was reacting to Davidgore’s pedagogic comment:

If we can’t think in symbolic terms, we can’t understand markets.

Which implied that I did not understand the value of thinking in symbolic terms.

Engineering is not only about manipulating mathematical signs. It is more about understanding the concepts behind those equations and feeling what it will happwn on the output side if one or more variables on the input side are changed. So I can’t accept your distinction between signs and symbols.

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