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I am most afraid of dying?

62 votes, 9 comments
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RE: Humans driven out of the service industry

Comment comment by ldsudduth on 04 January 2008

There's already been a noticeable drop in the use of humans to do a lot of tasks - assembly line work in particular. I recall seeing an article where a fast food chain (McD's maybe?) had built a prototype restaurant that had no staff - it was basically a big vending machine that cooked the food.

But, if the education of our young doesn't keep pace with the loss of menial labor jobs; we'll end up with even more of an 'entitlement' sector (for want of a better term) than we have now. Like now, it will be mostly made up of people who can't find a job because the only skill they have is flipping a burger, running a cash register, doing housekeeping, etc. Also, what do we do with the sector now who are employed in some of these types of jobs. I'm thinking of those folks with mild to moderate Downs Syndrome, or other developmental disorders who are mostly self-sufficient and live in group homes? Yes, I can see 'cure them' but what if the bots come before that--which I can plainly see happening. It might be a good idea, but it's not a panacea.

Loss of jobs in the manufacturing industries (not all can be done by machines, but a vast majority can.) is also a burden on the undereducated. Growing up in a community where manufacturing jobs were king (Anderson IN--General Motors Corp), and wages for manufacturing jobs were well beyond even what many professionals made it didn't surprise me that when the jobs left, the town deteriorated. They're trying, but it's just never going to be like it was---yet everyone wants that. I recall that a friend of mine from High School attended GMI (Now Kettering University), and his father with 25 years on the assembly line could easily make quite a bit more money in a year than Drew did with an Engineering degree, working for the same company. That's where the major failure in the manufacturing sector has been.

I'm not completely convinced that these 'sex bots' would eliminate prostitution. There will always be ladies who would prefer that line of work, and frankly I could see a cottage industry coming about where a live woman would be an expensive commodity; ergo only the wealthy could afford it.

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But, if the education of our young doesn't keep pace with the loss of menial labor jobs; we'll end up with even more of an 'entitlement' sector (for want of a better term) than we have now. Like now, it will be mostly made up of people who can't find a job because the only skill they have is flipping a burger, running a cash register, doing housekeeping, etc.

I think it's a lot worse than that. At the peak of the Great Depression, unemployment was in the neighborhood of 25%. But if you try to identify what jobs are put at risk by advancing technology - and try to account for the fact that even in areas where we can't fully automate the task (like the music examples I gave) technology can still dramatically reduce the number of people required - I don't think it's that outrageous to say that as many as half of all jobs are at risk. Imagine what 50% unemployment would be like.

Ultimately, I think that some kind of radical change in the basis of the economy is going to become necessary. I have no idea what that will be, but "scarcity" can't be the driver.

I'm not completely convinced that these 'sex bots' would eliminate prostitution.

I haven't tried to jump in on that speculation. Frankly, I think the way we treat our human sex workers is shameful.

Ultimately, sex bots won't eliminate prostitution because, by the time they can really be an adequate sex partner, they'll have progressed past the point where we have to seriously address the question of whether they have civil rights.

That's really the much deeper and more significant question that Levy is talking about. When he discusses the idea that humans and bots could marry and have fulfilling relationships, he's talking about "strong AI", which brings to the fore the question of whether these bots are "people".

But, if we're talking about a bot that somebody could really love, as he suggests, then it would have to give a very effective appearance of being a person - it needn't necessarily look like a human, but it's got to appear to have human thoughts and emotions.

I think that leads naturally to granting them rights, so they shouldn't be forced to do sex work any more than human workers should. If we continue with our poor attitudes toward sex workers, then the 'bots won't want to do it any more than humans do, so they won't even be trying to compete with the human prostitutes.

And if they don't get to the point where their deserving of rights, then they'll never be able to really deliver that "GFE" (girlfriend experience), and they'll just be expensive sex toys.

The prostitutes are safe.

On bots replacing people in the service industry the way they did in manufacturing--it will likely happen sooner rather than later, and now we at least have a model to examine. One thing that could slow the adoption of robots is cheap labor, but that too will only slow it, and then only maybe as robots undercut the cheapest of labor.

I think society will adapt as it has in hundreds of years of increasing automation (the industrial revolution at least onward). Yes, there will be bumps along the way, but that's where strong civil society comes in, and human resilience. As for the town dying, humans have migrated from one place to where new opportunities exist since the beginning. That probably sounds bad, and I don't say it lightly, because the same type of thing happened generally where I grew up.

On prostitution, I don't agree because while there might be ladies who prefer that line of work, who's buying?

1) a very realistic robot could be built to look and remain very attractive indefinitely. Moreover, if you get tired of the way it looks, you can change it.

2) if cleaned, you should never get a disease from it

3) it will never get you in legal difficulties, not get you beat up by associating with unsavory characters

4) depending on your world/ethical/moral view, it may not be considered "cheating" on your spouse (I think it would be because of intent), and may be much more socially acceptable than prostitution, especially if caught, especially with people who only object to prostitution because of the victimization of women. It could become about as controversial as masturbation.

5) it could adapt to your preferences and be more willing to play along than the vast majority of human participants would be willing to put up with

6) it could develop desirable features no human could match--I won't elaborate here and leave this to your imagination.

I could go on... I think it will bring with it a number of ethical questions, especially the impact on real relationships. Let's say your spouse is ok with you using one of these and later you and your spouse are getting up in age, but you still have this bot that is still "smokin' hot" and willing. What are the implications for your relationship then?

On the other hand, this could drive down the divorce rate by preventing stupid marriages from hormonal idiots and at the same time keep people like certain celebrities from breeding without good cause.