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RE: Pascal's Wager
QUOTE: Therefore, if you're born into the "wrong religion" you go to hell
You might want to read the bible (or at least research this assumption) before making statements like this. There is no where in the bible that this idea exists - in fact it's quite the opposite. All those who have been exposed to Christianity and have turned a blind eye to it are at risk of going to Hell. Those that have never been exposed to it are in no way at risk. Why do you think that so many different Christian religions have Ministries? It's to bring the word of God to those that have not yet heard it.
Research before you comment - it makes you look smarter.
RE: Pascal's Wager
Before I get started, I must agree with you; Pascal's Wager is a cop-out.
Moving on...
You have many assumptions about things like hell, damnation, the nature of God, etc. that don't reflect my beliefs, so (although I'm Christian) I don't feel as if you're arguing against me. In fact, many of the issues you have which question the justice and motivations of God given the circumstances of life seem to play directly into my "religious hand," so to speak. I won't get deep into them right now, but here are a couple of thoughts:
- God had a purpose in organizing the earth and sending us here. If you're going to comment on whether or not an action of God "makes sense," you'll have to tie it back to God's motivations if you want to have a coherent discussion.
- Not every Christian accepts the Nicaean Creed view of God's nature. Such may be common/popular, and may even be the belief set to which you were exposed growing up, but it is extra-biblical and non-essential to the Christian view. If you're going to argue against Christianity, much less against the existence of God, in general you must address them generally. Such isn't easy, so I might suggest you argue against particular divine attributes with which you take issue, rather than attempting to show faith is irrational by creating a specific straw-God.
- Earth life is only one part of existence. Thus, if you want to understand earth life in this construct, you must widen your scope to include existence before we were born and after we die. Granted, you don't hold similar beliefs, but if you want to understand those who do, you need to put yourself in their shoes (i.e., If God existed and had X motives, it wouldn't make sense to do Y.).
That's all for now, I guess. There are a lot of other things I'd like to say about specific doctrines, but I think laying this foundation is important.
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Pascal's Wager
It's interesting you bring that up ... it reminds me of a blog I passed a few weeks ago entitled "Atheist's Wager."
Everyone is familiar (perhaps not by name) with Pascal's Wager where Blaise Pascal laid the philosophical groundwork by which many people admit they found religion - a gamble for heaven. The thought goes:
Hence, many people have followed the logical conclusion that for lack of anything else to do, you may as well believe in god. (As a sidenote, this choice disgusts me as a ridiculous notion - if the god were real, I would certainly hope he sees through such your facade and lets you burn in hell right next to me).
Moving on. The Atheist Wager, looks at the implications of such a decision making tree and what it tells you about your god. It relies on the Pascal's premise that if you don't believe and god exists, that you go to hell. Now, what if you are born into another religion and raised as such by your parents. It's all you know and you're not exposed to anything else (case in point - see discussion "Can you explain why you don't believe in other gods?"). It follows that you aren't going to arbitrarily change your faith.
Therefore, if you're born into the "wrong religion" you go to hell. What sort of god is so fickle that he would damn good, innocent people of alternate circumstances to an eternity of misery? What sort of god is all powerful yet fails to make his existence clearly irrefutable such that people cease worshipping the wrong diety? What sort of god is all powerful yet fails to make his existence clearly irrefutable such that people of different faiths continue to slaughter each other in his name? What sort of god is all powerful (and allegedly loving) yet has a bouncer checking names against a disparate virtues list (as evidenced by multiple religions and their variations of morality) for admittance to the eternal party?
The Atheist Wager is therefore:
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