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Is it possible that in the distant future, President George W. Bush, the 43rd president, might be viewed as one of the greatest American Presidents?

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RE: Way out of proportion

Comment comment by scottb on 17 August 2007

Is the earth going through a warming cycle that accounts for some of the increases in temperature?

Well, the conservative nay-sayers keep repeating the mantra that the "hockey stick" chart has been completely discredited, but the climate scientists don't think so. And the "hockey stick" chart looks like this.

Now, I'll grant - I suppose it's possible that there's some natural warming cycle that could be represented in that data, but the fact that the graph pretty much launches upward at the same time the Industrial Revolution took off is an incredibly suspicious coincidence. That evidence alone makes a pretty strong prima facie case for the man-made global warming hypothesis, and it's something that needs to be directly addressed.

It's not enough to say "maybe it's not us" - the anti-warming folks need some pretty strong evidence showing that it's just coincidental, which pretty much means they need to prove its real cause.

I'm certain there is much more than can be done, but those are the ones I stick to my guns about--especially the use of trains and Mass Transit.

Personally, I think the solution is more likely to be more high tech. I expect we'll find a relatively quick way to slow down the process - taking some natural carbon sequestering system and delaying the mechanism that causes it to re-release its sequestered carbon. And I think we'll find a more direct solution to the problem after that - a relatively small change in the Earth's albedo shouldn't be completely beyond us, and that's all it would take.

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Making the Aztecs Proud by LordDilly :: NR8

Here's the thing that bothers me about the man-made global warming hysteria (aside from the fact that for every person who says the science is settled another says "nuh-uh")-- we wouldn't be the first civilization to spend all our efforts trying to appease the angry gods for our transgressions when the environment starts getting uppity instead of trying to figure out how to survive what may be coming. Already there are lawsuits against those who have "caused" global warming. The UN, EU, and politicians like Gore are rubbing their hands together at the thought of imposing "carbon" taxes and greater governmental intrusion in all our lives. Mouth breathing celebrities preach to us common folk to repent of our energy sins whilst hopping into their SUVs to take them and their entourage to their private jets, or while having a hot tub helicoptered in. The Live Earth concert produced as much carbon in one day as Afghanistan did all last year. Much touted "green" fuel such as ethanol are ultimately worthless, as there isn't enough farmland to grow enough corn to make it worthwhile, plus it pollutes worse than gasoline. Don't get me started on the costs of bio-diesel.

Aside from the fact that probably the simplest and cheapest way of reducing pollutants is increased nuclear power (even the co-founder of Greenpeace says their no-nukes absolutism in the 70's was wrong-headed and environmentally destructive) and a really good, affordable, powerful electric car, I have not heard one idea being proposed about what we should do if Global Warming is inevitable. Not one. No ideas on how to adapt, on how to make Global Warming work for us. Just hysteria and polishing up the stone slabs in anticipation of making human (or orangutan) sacrifices to appease the angry weather gods.

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RE: Way out of proportion by ldsudduth :: NR6

Now, I'll grant - I suppose it's possible that there's some natural warming cycle that could be represented in that data, but the fact that the graph pretty much launches upward at the same time the Industrial Revolution took off is an incredibly suspicious coincidence. That evidence alone makes a pretty strong prima facie case for the man-made global warming hypothesis, and it's something that needs to be directly addressed.

I agree that it's a pretty strong case, but if so, then why is there so much dissent among climate scientists? I don't have any answers. To my 'untrained' eye, however, one thing for sure winter in the Northern US is not as cold or snowy as it was even in the last 30 years. But..I still don't know how much is natural and how much is man-made. Even the charts only address the last 1,000 years..what about the 1,000 years before that, and the 1,000 years before that, etc.? The problem is we just don't know, and probably can't know completely.

You may be correct with you carbon sequestering system solution---I'd love to think so..but my gut reaction is that the damage is done, and while we can slow it down, we won't stop the inevitible.