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Is it possible that in the distant future, President George W. Bush, the 43rd president, might be viewed as one of the greatest American Presidents?

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RE: Wrong place. Wrong Time.

Comment comment by scottb on 19 December 2006

Well, with one caveat: not in science class. The facts about religions are fine in history classes, not biology or physics.

This I agree with as well. But if they are to come up in history, sociology, political, etc. classes ... there ought to be equal face time and legitimacy put into the others.

Sure. I actually think it'd fine to do comparative religion in schools - if it were done appropriately. That is, to make it clear that these are things that some people believe, and that any justification for believing them must be sought elsewhere - the school has none to offer, and that applies to Christianity.

A public school teacher must not offer justification for any religious belief - even their own, and even if asked. Teachers weild far too much influence over their impressionable students to take any other position.

America is an athiest nation - love it or leave it.

As much as I hate to say it, I don't entirely agree with that one. The state should be an atheist nation that shows favor to no one. But the public ... well, they are free to do what they want and [unfortunately] want to believe in religion.

Again, sure. People can believe what they want. But when we talk about the nation, we're talking about the values we hold as a group. America, as a nation (not as a culture) is defined in an essential way by the Constitution. That document explicitly rejects the idea of affirming any particular religion, which implies the rejection of affirming any particular god. America, as a nation, is athiest.

On the other hand, America's cultural history is closely tied to that of Western Europe. The early years of American cultural history - the 18th century - precisely correspond to a time in European history where society was working hard to throw off the bonds of Christianity, which had completely dominated the contintent for the previous millenium. The founding fathers incorporated this as a fundamental principle in the Constitution, in the First Amendment.

They believed in it enough that an early treaty with a foreign Islamic power (the Treaty of Tripoli) explicitly started "As the Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded upon the Christian religion..." - this treaty was read and ratified by the Senate, who apparently didn't find the language at all unusual.

To whatever extent America is represented by its government, it is an explicitly athiest nation. It's shameful that so often, those who represent the American government don't seem to hold to its ideals.

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RE: Wrong place. Wrong Time. by mikeforbes :: NR5

A public school teacher must not offer justification for any religious belief - even their own, and even if asked.

Even if asked?!? Sorry, but that is an unacceptable limit on the teacher's freedom of speech -- remember? the right that's guaranteed one breath after the freedom of religion?

[the Constitution] explicitly rejects the idea of affirming any particular religion, which implies the rejection of affirming any particular god. America, as a nation, is athiest.

Prohibiting the official government endorsement of a particular establishment of religion does not in any way imply the endorsement of atheism. America is certainly not a theocracy, but it's not an atheist nation either. As I said above, the First Amendment implies inclusiveness, not atheism.