Dating: What's the Etiquette?

This is a good one...I think that women have a huge amount of influence over men, more then we'd care to admit. When we initiate a relationship and begin the courtship process we're doing ourselves a huge service...I think the most important thing a guy can do is earn and keep the respect of his lady...by beginning the process you've basically given yourself a position as the patriarch of the relationship. A good woman will acknowledge this immediately and in the end your reward is less headaches...its so easy to win arguments, ("Hey, didn't I ask YOU out?!!, Didn't I buy you your last four meals?!!, Aren't those flowers that I gave you?") All we can ever hope to obtain from our women is loyalty and respect...to earn the ability to ask them for something without them saying "What have you done for me lately?"

Maybe this will sound sexist, but a woman can "get by" on less money than a man because of the very reason Dereck points out. Yes, there are instances where the women ask the men out and where the women actually pay for the date. But simply given a lifetime of observation, those cases represent outliers. It's far easier for women to backpack around the world and "live free" at the expense of boyfriends than it is for a man (albeit at the expense of girlfriends). And it further bothers me when I see instances of women getting tired of the settled life, whimsically reminiscing about the olden days of traveling the world without a care. Then they leave the man taking half his money while he continues to work and pay alimony while she jet sets around living on said money and the free lunches of new boyfriends.

In the world of sexual equality ... women ought to pay more often to show they're serious about the man. Put some equity into that relationship so he knows you're not just a freeloader.

If the question is strictly about etiquette, I’d have to say my perspective is a bit old fashioned. I think the man should always offer to pay (hold on, hold on), this gives the woman the opportunity to either accept or say, “no, you paid last time”. In my experience, a good woman will take it upon herself to offer but the point is you’re giving HER the choice.

Both boy and girl should pay 50/50. If the boy has to pay most of the time, maybe she's not interested.

Steve

speaking from 25 years of marriage/=partnership

If you consult the sort of manners book which involves holding open doors and helping with chairs, you will find the book was written in 1940 and says "the man pays for everything, that includes after marriage". So that's not much help - we'll have to make up our own rules.

I think the seventh date, or the seventh expensive-for-the-guy thing is probably where the line should be drawn.

How to implement this if the girl doesn't pick up on it, though? You could simply halve the cost of your dates - home-cooked candle-lit meals instead of going to restaurants, going for picnics at the beach, and suchlike can provide less expensive means of dating. If she asks why, tell the truth: say you're a bit short of money at the moment.

As a practical matter it would probably be worth maintaining an early dating level of romance by occasionally going out for a nice meal at your expense - once every six or eight weeks would be frequent enough if you're on a budget.

"First you plant the seed, then you F$%^ the plant"

You have planted the seed....let it grow. If she doesn't come meet half way at some point, then she is not THAT into you and isn't worth your time.....she's just using you for subsistence (food, clothing, shelter, etc).

....And that quote...more of a euphemism :)

'nuff said.

You are correct in that if the woman does not offer to pay for her half or make dinner for you eventually she is NOT that into you.

The female should offer to pay for half by the 4th date. The initial three dates the male is asking the female to consider him for a relationship (of any sort). By the fourth date the female should make a decision to continue or not, at this point she should start footing her half of the bill. This is unless of course the male has asked her out for an expensive night she might not otherwise have chosen, or it is a special occasion in which the male would be expected to pay (valentines day, new years, birthday).

The female may offer to pay for her half earlier, if she is the one who chooses the venue. She may offer to pay for the whole evening earlier if it is a special occasion - taking the male out for his birthday or the celebration of an accomplishment. Even in these cases the male should still offer to pay his half, but only once. The female should decline the male, if the male asks more than once this is inconsiderate. The male however, may make an offer to leave a tip, which generally should be accepted by the female on the first offer.

I made it known to suitors that they should not open doors for me or do anything out of character for themselves if they did not intend on doing it for the duration of our relationship. If you pay for the full meal every time after the 4th date, you are setting a precedent.

However, the problem lies in how to approach the female when she does not anty up. If you say you want her to start paying, you look cheap and less devoted to pursuing the female. If you ignore it - you set the aforementioned precedent. Perhaps it is time for a DTR (define the relationship) discussion. Besides, girls love these. Find out if she would like to further pursue the relationship, if so - tell her to ask you out sometime, because "it will be fun".

If she asks you out and does not pay then it may be time to dump. Who knows what else she will want you to pay for or what kind of credit card debt she has. A female who is financially sound will make it known - "I own my car, house. . .or, I'm so lucky to have paid off all my student loans" In the same token, one who is not will make it known as well. "I would love to pay, but I didn't expect that $200 vet bill when my dog got sick". Just remember you can't choose who you fall in love with if you don't make the decision early on, and you could marry yourself to financial ruin.