3 Votes
The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS and Texas Polygamists
First, a couple of quick questions to ask yourself, just to prime the discussion:
- How is the Texas compound (recently raided) related to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or "Mormon Church") based in Salt Lake City?
- To which religious organization do members of the polygamous group belong?
Take your time here and actually figure out what you know (and don’t know) off the top of your head.
If you aren’t sure how to answer, you aren’t alone. And if you are sure, you might want to double-check. According to a press release from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, these same questions received the following response when posed to 1,000 U.S. adults (91% of whom had heard or read stories surrounding the religious compound):
- Relationship to Mormon Church:
- * 36% – The Texas compound is part of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or "Mormon Church" based in Salt Lake City.
- * 29% – The two groups are not connected at all.
- * 29% – Not sure.
- * 6% – The two groups are partly related.
- Religious affiliation:
- * 44% – Not sure
- * 30% – Mormon, LDS or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- * 14% – FLDS
- * 6% – Mormon fundamentalists
If you’re like me, your initial reaction to these results was to explain it away as an education thing. Anyone who went to college, traveled, read up on current events regularly, etc. would know the difference, right? I mean, consider the contrast:
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. LDS Church, Mormon Church, or Mormons_) – a worldwide organization with 13 million members (whom the casual observer couldn’t tell from Adam), famous for their missionary programChurch%29 and humanitarian efforts (over a billion in aid since 1985)
- The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (a.k.a. FLDS Church_) – an organization of 10 thousand who dress distinctly, practice polygamy, and often live in separate communities
Since the raid on the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Texas brought the FLDS Church into the limelight, the subject has come up in various discussions with coworkers (all well-educated), and I’m flabbergasted so many still equate "Mormon" with people who dress like Quakers, have multiple wives, and follow the incarcerated Warren Jeffs. (My favorite part is hearing them say, "_You are Mormon?" after which I think, "Crazy, I know.")
Of course, some of the blame has to rest on the media. Once this YFZ Ranch raid story broke, the LDS Church started receiving requests from media outlets to feature pictures of the Salt Lake Temple (probably the most recognizable Mormon image) next to their writeups. Some (mostly international outlets) actually went to press with it. Seriously, people. It’s your job to inform people and you’re that misguided? No wonder the LDS Church has gone to the extent of writing a letter to the media and posting videos about Texas Mormons on their YouTube channel. With people like this around, and the apparently widespread misinformation ont he subject, who can blame them?
As Elder Cook states in one of the LDS Church press releases, "We have an obligation to define ourselves rather than be defined by events and incidents that have nothing to do with us. It’s obvious we need to do more to help people understand the enormous differences that exist between our Church which is a global faith and these small polygamous groups." Hopefully people will start to get it.
Similarly tagged OmniNerd content:
- PEW EXIT POLL: More Mormons Voted For George Bush In 2004 Than Mitt Romney In 2012, by markmcb 7 months ago
- When people don't get their MSG, by JyroBritanniac over 3 years ago
- LDS Church Support of Proposition 8, by Brandon over 4 years ago
- You can be Mormon and a nudist, Sunstone speaker says, by Brandon almost 5 years ago
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More religous groups should do this by scottb
I’ve said before – fundamentalists make every "mainstream" religious group look bad, but the mainstream groups seldom do anything to distance themselves.
It’s evidently taken a police action that’s garnered national attention to get LDS to put any real effort into it.
Of course those outside don’t see the difference. You believe crazy stuff, they believe crazy stuff, and there’s substantial common ground in your crazy stuff. Oh, they’re more crazy you say? Sure, whatever.
Differences and Dragons by davidcgore
I just read this post and the many comments appended to it and wish now to chime in.
One problem identified in this post and the ensuing discussion is the limitation of exposing/discussing meaningful differences in an age of public affairs. For example, Brandon, what is the "right’ answer to the first question posed in your post regarding the relationship between the FLDS and Mormon church? In my opinion, both the second statement and the fourth are true: the two groups, FLDS and LDS are not connected at all AND the two groups are partly related – at least from the perspective of a common history of faith in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Therefore, any such kind of question will bring "wrong" answers – misguided, uninformed, unreflective, and unknowing – if only because the number of perspectives from which an answer can come is too narrow.
This brings me to comment on narrowness: I have to take serious issue with the comments by scottb and markmcb – whom I consider to be, judging from their posts, ignorant of the social and psychological advantages of religion. To begin with, let me challenge markmcb’s assertion that dragons are not real. In point of fact, they are a very real part of human literature, imagination, and life (komodo, dinosaurs, and otherwise). To assert that they are not "real" is to miss their reality – both in point of fact – to which the non-religious love to appeal – and in point of value (many a good moral lesson is contained in Steinbeck’s Acts of King Arthur and his Noble Knights – together with good policy advice about how to slay dragons – carry a good sword, wear protective armor that gives great flexibility of movement, etc.). Being sane and rational as I am, though a believer in a religious faith, too, I would concede that dragons are real mostly in stories, but it is just that reality that pertains to the present discussion. Let us not forget that even in your story about dragons that are not real, there are believers and the temples they build that are very much real. Additionally, who is to say, you, markmcb, that God is not real? Who is to say that the beliefs of Latter-day Saints are not real, that what they believe in is not real? I’m just not sure what the point of that would be. After all, it could be true; and, anyway, the belief together with its effects are most certainly real.
Scottb would dismiss religious stories and scripture as mere hodge podge. Others say that differences between stories don’t matter or that persuasion between stories is somehow wrong. I hold with William James: There is no difference anywhere that does not make a difference somewhere. Distinctions and differences of doctrine, practice, and belief between one faith and another matter a great deal to those who exercise faith in them. They should matter, too, to anyone who is interested in understanding human societies, lives, beliefs, and practices. It is little consolation to hide behind the assertion that because these differences and distinctions don’t matter to YOU then they don’t matter at all. That, I’m afraid, is the beginnings of a fundamentalism as misguided as any.
We would have no law, no community, and no purpose without stories. This is why, I think, all of us should be interested in the differences Brandon is pointing out. Understanding the differences enables us to act without bigotry, ignorance, and the proud blindness that comes from acting as if our own story is the only right one. It’s OK to believe you have the best story, as Brandon does, with the qualifier that he wants others to bring the truth of their stories and add to it the truth of his, but only so far as he does it with a deep sense of respect for the stories others tell and the seriousness of the act of persuasion. In Bradon’s case, this respect is borne out by the fact that he spent two years living among another people, speaking their language, serving them, and loving them, while also sharing his story with them in a spirit of persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, kindness, and love unfeigned. Only he or she who has done likewise should think about casting the first stone at him or his mission.
Let me, too, add a second witness to Brandon’s point about LDS missionaries. I was one in England for two years. It was a very happy time of my life in which I made friendships that have lasted many, many years and in which I grew in self-awareness and self-respect. I taught at least one man who was an atheist before he spoke with us – so the assertion about low-lying fruit seems misinformed, according to my experience. One might choose to see pride in the act of a 19 year old proclaiming a truth he believes in, but I think I was a better missionary then than I would be now, at 33 with a Ph.D. One should not underestimate the power of a young person to tell a compelling story. A wise teacher said we might even pay attention to the mouths of a babes . . .
Other points/differences to consider by Brandon
I re-read a newsletter from FAIR (The FAIR Journal, April 2008.) and came across some other points to add to the discussion.
Another example of the confusion between the LDS church and the FLDS church is illustrated in Jon Krakauer book, ‘’Under
the Banner of Heaven’‘. I’ve read the book has deeper issues, but the one pertinent here is when the author argues the LDS church should "do something" about the polygamy problem (among the FLDS). This doesn’t make any sense as the FLDS church isn’t and has never been a part of the LDS church. And, even if it was, what action could be taken further than terminating someone’s membership? (Can you imagine the reaction if the LDS church attempted to "do something" about the activities of, say, the ex-Mormon Foundation or ex-Mormon message boards on the Internet?)
To further convey how unrelated the LDS church is from the FLDS church (and its parent churches), consider this line of authority within the FLDS church:
Next in line is Rulon’s son, Warren Jeffs, who has never been a member of the LDS church – like most members of the FLDS church. (Rather, they are the children or grandchildren of those excommunicated from the LDS church in the 1920s and 1930s.)
Lastly, for those who like to say the FLDS church is a reflection of 19th-century Mormonism, consider the following significant differences (with quotes taken from the aforementioned email/newsletter):
Media error by Brandon
I just ran across this article in the NY Times: "Mormon Leader Is Survived by 33 Sons and a Void;
Guess who it’s about? None other than Rulon T. Jeffs…
One paragraph begins, "As the eighth prophet of the church, in a line that began with the Mormon pioneer, Joseph Smith, Mr. Jeffs…"
Ridiculous.