Interview with Okkervil River's Brian Cassidy

If you’re hip to the indie rock scene, chances are you’ve heard of Okkervil River.¹ Or, if you’re not quite so hip but make occasional trips to places like the Container Store, you might have at least heard something from their latest album, The Stand Ins – probably “Lost Coastlines.” Well, if you check out the “Lost Coastlines” video and count to the sixth face shown (the fifth if you don’t count the singer), you’ll catch a few glimpses of Brian Cassidy. His head is in a TV a few times along the way, too.²

	Bcass in Okkervil’s “Lost Coastlines” video

Brian’s been a friend for a long time. (You know that tie he wore on Conan? That was a groomsman gift he got at my wedding.) I’ve always wondered what it would be like to be a part of the music scene, so I couldn’t pass up on the opportunity to pump Bcass’s brain about his experiences with Okkervil.

Interview

The questions and footnotes are mine. The answers are Brian’s.

What did you do before joining Okkervil River?

After getting a graduate degree in music at UT, I taught guitar and piano lessons part-time at a community music school. I was certified to teach public school, but I wasn’t sure I wanted to do that right away. Teaching lessons allowed me the freedom to play in a lot of bands around town. At one time I was simultaneously playing with 5 different groups. The idea was to get some exposure and hopefully get picked up by a more successful band that could pay a decent wage.

What do you do outside of playing in OR now?

As of March last year, I stepped down as a touring member of the band. My wife and I decided to start a family, and I wanted to get to spend time with my daughter. Okkervil usually spends about half of the year on the road, and I didn’t want to miss half of my daughter’s first year of life. Now I’m teaching private guitar, piano, banjo, and pedal steel lessons at my home studio. It’s great to be able to work from home, set my own schedule, and spend time with my family.

How did you come to be a band member of Okkervil River? What is your role in the band now?

Back in 2004, I went to a Shearwater³ show, and after the show I talked with Jonathan Meiburg (Shearwater’s frontman, and former keyboardist for Okkervil). We talked mostly about banjo pickups, but at the end of the conversation I gave him my name, email, and the instruments I played. Several months later I got an email from Okkervil saying they were looking for a fill-in keyboard player for their upcoming US tour. I auditioned, did the tour (filling in for Jonathan on keys), and then right after that tour they added me as a new full-time guitarist.

I’m no longer a touring member, but I might play with them from time to time. I’m recording with them next month on an upcoming Roky Erickson⁴ record where Okkervil will be Roky’s backing band.

How does being a “rock star” compare to your expectations?

Well, thanks, but I think there are very few circles in which I’d be considered anything close to a rock star. I will say though, that previous to playing in Okkervil, I assumed that members of successful bands (bands that are selling out shows around the globe, playing huge festivals, and performing on late night talk shows) were probably making a respectable amount of money. Unfortunately, that’s simply not the case. I’ve always had to supplement my playing income by teaching lessons.

With what band did you enjoy touring most?

I enjoyed the guys from Elvis Perkins.⁵ I’m a big soccer guy, and our shows with them were frequently followed by late night soccer games in parking lots or nearby fields. Those guys were always kicking a ball around.

Where are your favorite and least favorite venues to play and why?

I love the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee.⁶ It’s a beautiful, old theater and they treat the performers incredibly well. I also always enjoy playing the Paradiso in Amsterdam.⁷

There are a handful of dirty, dark rock clubs in the UK that are a pretty gross. The worst of which is probably Barfly in Cardiff, Wales.⁸ I don’t think a single rock club in the UK ever had soap in the bathroom.

How many times have you had underwear thrown at you on stage? (If not underwear, what other interesting things have you had thrown onstage?)

I’m pretty sure no one ever threw underwear in my direction. Last year an Okkervil fan made a full-color embroidery of me playing guitar, took pictures of it, and posted it online. I wasn’t sure what to think about that.

How do you view your future with the band?

I really don’t know. I’m happy with the way things are now. I don’t have to do the grueling tour schedule, but I’m still getting occasional opportunities to play and record with the band. It’s helpful that I’ve performed with the band on both keyboards and guitars. It enables me to sub for either spot if someone can’t do a gig.

Describe how Okkervil’s relationship is with it’s label (Jagjaguwar).

Clearly the relationship is positive. Otherwise, OR wouldn’t have stuck with them for so many years. I don’t know details, but I assume Okkervil has a standard indie 50% deal with the label.

How does this compare to the experiences of other bands?

Good question.

Where would you place a record label on a scale rating how important it is to Okkervil’s success (from “worthless” to “essential”) and why?

The label is important, but the distribution is essential because it’s the only way you can get your records in the store. Even though downloading is huge, people are still buying CDs. The label is just a small part of the music business side. Along with distributors, the publicist, lawyers, booking agency, and management all play an important (and expensive) role.

What is your favorite OR album and why?

The most recent record, “The Stand Ins.” There are songs from each album that I like, but this one has the most favorites for me. “Blue Tulip” is definitely one of my favorite Okkervil songs to play.

How does OR go about writing / recording its music? What sort of role do you play?

Will Sheff writes all of the songs. He usually has a very specific idea of what instrumentation he wants on each song, but then it’s up to the rest of us band members to develop our parts on those instruments.

If you could choose only five albums to listen to for the rest of your life, what would they be?

Lately, I’ve found myself listening to less and less music. Before I started touring I listened to music all of the time. When touring, and even now, I’d much prefer to listen to public radio or even sports talk radio. I guess I attribute this to spending 3 years on the other side of the music industry. Before, there was something magical and unattainable about my favorite bands. Now that I’ve played in a successful band, somehow the magic has been revealed, and well, it just doesn’t seem that magical anymore.

That said, I still enjoy listening to music, just not as much as I used to. I don’t have much interest in the latest indie-rock bands. I’m ready for something new, and whatever it is, I don’t think I’m going to find out about it on Pitchfork.⁹

Here are a few songs/recordings I could listen to forever:

• Radiohead: The Bends
• “Denn alles Fleisch es ist wie Gras” from the Klemperer recording of Brahms Ein deutsches Requiem
• Centro-matic: Love You Just the Same (really, anything from Will Johnson)
• “Bogoroditsye Devo” – Rachmaninoff Vespers (Shaw recording)
• “Waited a Light Year” and “Our Drive to the Sun – Can a Man Mark It,” from Tripping Daisy: Jesus Hits Like the Atom Bomb
• “I Dream a Highway” and “Revelator” from Gillian Welch: Revelator

If you were the “front man” of your own band, what kind of music would you play?

I’ve enjoyed writing the string parts for the Okkervil records. I think it would be fun to take the stage with just me, a guitar, and a string section behind me.

How do you feel about the illegal song downloading going on these days?

I don’t know. For Okkervil, I bet it’s probably amounted to more live show revenue, but less album sales, so it’s a bit of a trade off. However, I’d rather be sitting at home earning money then traveling from rock club to rock club to earn money.

Break down how a band like Okkervil River earns income (i.e., what percentage from album sales, merchandise sales, ticket sales, endorsements, etc.).

I don’t know a lot of these details. I will say that the more successful a band gets, the more people there are among which the money is spread. It’s remarkable to me how much money Okkervil can make for one show these days. In the three years I toured with the band, these numbers increased 10 fold, but the band member’s income only doubled. This is because as the band became more successful, there were more people involved who needed to be paid. Many of these people probably play a significant role in Okkervil’s success. For example, Okkervil’s publicist, Mary Moyer, was responsible for getting the band on both Conan O’Brien and David Letterman. Surely, the exposure from these television appearances translates to a wider fan base.

Also, as with any successful band, a balance is found between comfort and take-home pay. You could cram 8 people into a van pulling a trailer and sleep 4 in a Budget Lodge, or you could ride in a luxury tour bus and stay at the Hyatt where everyone gets their own room. The members in Okkervil were usually in agreement on these choices, so finding the right balance always seemed to come naturally.

Anything else you’d like to add?

Despite my somewhat jaded feelings towards the music industry, I still enjoy playing. In addition to the occasional Okkervil appearance, I’ve reconnected with my friends from Black Before Red here in Austin.¹⁰ I just played a show with them this past weekend on a bill with Shearwater, and I’m recording with BBR a new full-length record for a release later this year.

Notes

¹ “Okkervil River.” OkkervilRiver.com. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.okkervilriver.com/.

² “‘Lost Coastlines’ by Okkervil River.” YouTube. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKmZRO8XzyY.

³ “Shearwater.” ShearwaterMusic.com. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.shearwatermusic.com/.

⁴ “Rocky Erickson.” RockyErickson.net. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.rokyerickson.net/.

⁵ “Elvis Perkins in Dearland.” ElvisPerkinsInDearland.com. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.elvisperkinsindearland.com/.

⁶ “The Pabst Theater.” PabstTheater.org. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.pabsttheater.org/.

⁷ “Paradiso.” Paradiso.nl. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.paradiso.nl/index2.php.

⁸ “Barfly.” BarflyClub.com. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.barflyclub.com/.

⁹ “Pitchfork.” PitchforkMedia.com. Accessed February 2009 from http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/.

¹⁰ “Black Before Red.” BlackBeforeRed.com Accessed February 2009 from http://www.blackbeforered.com/.