5 Votes
Flash Mobs Turning For Worst
For those of you living under a rock that don’t know what a flash mob is, watch the embedded video that laughably makes the argument AT&T’s phone network is faster *cough* bullshit *cough*. Anyway, what seemed to have started as a social phenomena for amusement (see Improv Everywhere for example) has taken a turn for the worst. Borrowing on the youthful adage, “they can’t arrest all of us,” social forums are inspiring flash mobs to stir up riots, vandalism and theft. A recent flash mob in Maryland cleaned out a 7-Eleven in under a minute. Philadelphia imposed a 9:00pm curfew on teenagers in the wake of violence seemingly attached to flash mob behavior. What measures should authorities have to quell mob behavior?
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Psychology of Consequence on Crime by Travis
I’m no expert by any means on psychology… I have to think that eroded moral standards within the family unit and that erosion being enforced by society has conditioned the thought:
“they can’t arrest all of us,”
This is of coarse a generalized statement in a type of society, most likely low income families and neighborhoods where the rule of law is absent.
I also spent some time living in England and learned that crime as a youth is actually a logical option. By that I mean stealing, whether that be a plasma TV from a department store or breaking into a home results in minor punishment. From my limited experience a youth that I worked with back there was caught burglarizing a home. No fines or jail time were required (I don’t know if they even create a record). He was required to go get some counseling. How long he was supposed to go I’m not sure but I was with him within a few days after he got caught and was not attending counseling there after. My point here is that in this case crime was a reasonable option as the consequences were near nil. The possible opportunities far out way the minor infractions… so how can one expect a youth conditioned to crime to change when he’s older?
Anyone out there that could speak to the psychology of consequence and it’s effect on crime?
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by EyeOfSage
most likely low income families and neighborhoods where the rule of law is absent.
While I do agree low income and crime rate seem to correlate, I must point out low income petty crimes are partially motivated by necessity while petty crimes committed by middle and high income family youth seems to be mostly motivated out of boredom and a lack of proper understanding and responsibility as well as poorly taught ethics.
I do believe our education system, k-12, is inadequate in teaching responsibility, ethics, and keeping the students busy. I do not believe half the teacher currently employed are capable of teaching our future bright young minds. Ethics are not taught in most public institutions for k-12. And high school teachers are half the time, really poor examples of what a responsible adult should be like. [Sorry teachers]
While I advocate parents to teach kids about ethics and responsibility, I do understand most parents do not have the time, energy, and training to do so. But neither does our k-12 teachers. So the solution, raise the standards for hiring teachers and change the curriculum.
I do remember something like that being proposed by a certain region’s board of education and all the teachers got upset because they lost their job due to this new policy. Though I must remind these people that certain profession like being a doctor, a fireman, a policeman, and a teacher, isn’t just another job you do to feed your family. It’s a responsibility to someone else and it is important to understand money isn’t the only thing that matters. Those who do not understand this should not be allowed to influence our children.
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by Travis
most likely low income families and neighborhoods where the rule of law is absent.
I knew I’d get pinged for my generalized remarks… though I appreciate you not getting to hung up on it.
I think we are on the same page here in terms of teaching ethics and standards to our youth, however I cringed at the excuse you gave parents.
While I advocate parents to teach kids about ethics and responsibility, I do understand most parents do not have the time, energy, and training to do so.
So a kid may go to school to learn what is ethical and right and go home to see the hypocrisy (whether that be in a low income family or the ritz) just because there’s no time in the parent’s opinion.
While I think that it could only help to have ethics reinforced at school… it is in the home and day to day life that instills the controls in a child psyche.
I’m not trying to let the teacher’s off the hook, but in the end it’s the individual’s (parent’s until at an accountable age) responsibility. I do like your suggestion / example about the education board. Why shouldn’t teachers be held up to some sort of ethical/professional standard? Doctors, lawyers and engineers all do? What makes teachers so different?
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by Occams
I think it is justice possible that these lawless kids have an acute sense of justice but feel that it has been denied to them by their environment.
If you are young, full of energy and ambition, but can’t afford the good things of life that you see others enjoying, particularly in films, TV, magazines etc. and your parents and teachers and preachers are hopeless, you could wind up with the feeling that life has been very unfair to you.
Look at your options for getting your share
I am not saying that they are justified in behaving like they did in London, only that it is perfectly understandable, and to some extent our fault.
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by Travis
I am not saying that they are justified in behaving like they did in London, only that it is perfectly understandable, and to some extent our fault.
OK… what exactly is it that is our fault? Is it the environment that we created for them, the lack of enforcing the rule of law; i.e. stiffer punishments to drive fear to prevent such behavior or what?
While I agree that these mobs may be
full of energy and ambition, but can’t afford the good things of life that you see others enjoying, particularly in films, TV, magazines etc. and your parents and teachers and preachers are hopeless, you could wind up with the feeling that life has been very unfair to you.
But how is that different than any other generation of youth? It seems like there’s more than just angst and built up frustration. That’s been around since the world began, so has inequality.
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by wyldeling
most likely low income families and neighborhoods where the rule of law is absent.
I mostly agree, but I’d like to point something out. My mother-in-law, an anthropologist/middle school teacher, pointed out that division in the classes has less to do with income (although there is a positive correlation with it) and more to do with a difference in values. The lower class does not have the same values as the middle class, and neither have the same values as the upper class. This is most evident when you see a member of a different class doing something that is seemingly absurd, like buying $100-$200+ sneakers when your on food stamps.
I’m not trying to let the teacher’s off the hook, but in the end it’s the individual’s (parent’s until at an accountable age) responsibility.
What happens when the parents don’t step up? Should the state get involved? Why or why not?
Enough poking the bear,
Why shouldn’t teachers be held up to some sort of ethical/professional standard?
At least in NY state, they are. To teach requires a teaching certificate (another major and a half on top of a Bachelor’s degree), a Bachelor’s degree in a close field to the one you’re teaching, a Master’s degree in teaching within 5 years of receiving the certification to retain it, and 30 hours of professional development every year to keep their jobs. Teachers are highly trained professionals. Unfortunately, determining whether or not someone is a good teacher requires time, and student teaching isn’t enough. Ideally, the period prior to tenure is enough to weed out the bad ones that make it through, but sometimes isn’t quite long enough. On tenure, tenure only guarantees due process when a teacher is being fired. Prior to tenure, a teacher can be fired without cause at the whim of the principal. After tenure, the principal must have a case, but that is the only difference. When I worked in industry, the company I worked for had a similar policy once someone was vested. (I was a contractor, so it didn’t apply to me …)
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by Occams
I think we often forget that half of the population has an intelligence that is below the mean. In a large city like London that means that there will be hundreds of thousands of dumb teenagers about. They are not smart enough to equip themselves with a good education and make money in an honest way. If they can get a job it will probably be soul destroying and pay very little. They have no future and they know it. So when an opportunity arises to loot something valuable, they take it.
I don’t think you can blame parents and teachers for not giving them morality and ethics. Those things are not learned from lectures but from experience. Experience on the street teaches the kind of morality that we see in these riots. It is certainly no better in the USA, and it was not better in the past where people lived under the same conditions.
It’s easy to complain about the problem but very difficult to find the solution. I think it lies in changing the city environment. We have to find something that incentivizes unintelligent teenagers: innit?
Music can do it for some (hip hop and wrap). Sport can do it for some. Military service can do it for some. Religion can do it for some. Perhaps learning to love science or literature could do it too if there were a way to present it to them in an interesting way.
Wha’eva man.
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by wyldeling
I think we often forget that half of the population has an intelligence that is below the mean. In a large city like London that means that there will be hundreds of thousands of dumb teenagers about. They are not smart enough to equip themselves with a good education and make money in an honest way.
There’s an interesting bias here, and not the one you’d think. Most people buy into the idea that we’re born with a fixed set of aptitudes that cannot be changed, including intelligence. Despite the fact that an IQ test is not a good indicator of intelligence, it does show one thing: your ability to solve problems, i.e. your intelligence, is fluid. While few people possess the aptitude to ever run a 100m under 10s, I have met very few people who I could not teach calculus. Unlike our physical aptitudes, our mental ones may not be fixed, and hence it is possible to increase our “intelligence.” Some people pick up a skill slower than others, and this may be a truer indication of intelligence, but even the acquisition speed can be altered. I’ve done it. In some things I’m fast to begin with, but I constantly play games with myself precisely to boost my speed at some things. With some of them, I’ve frightened my fellow students. (Once I systematically reduced a 50+ term equation without writing anything down. What I didn’t tell him was I had been looking at trig identities for several hours before hand, so it made it easier.) It’s funny and sad how deep this idea goes, and how early it is picked up upon.
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by Occams
I don’t think we can change parents or teachers significantly. They are always going to reflect societal norms.
The challenge is to motivate kids who are not very smart, and that is a very difficult thing to do.
We need to create something that they want very, much and are prepared to work hard to achieve. That thing used to be a good life, but the prospect of that is not there any longer. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer whether they work hard or not. We need to create upward mobility.
The last thing kids from poor neighbourhoods want is to hear people who are much better off than they are ranting about morality and ethics. We just don’t understand what they have to do to survive.
Something that these kids may want very much is a trade education. Learning how to produce valuable goods and services is more interesting than hanging about on the streets, and it provides a sense of achievement and self worth that these youth probably could get in no other way. Instead of moaning about their poor English and math skills, we should be praising them for their ability to repair cars or cut hair or something similar.
RE: Psychology of Consequence on Crime by EyeOfSage
however I cringed at the excuse you gave parents….So a kid may go to school to learn what is ethical and right and go home to see the hypocrisy (whether that be in a low income family or the ritz) just because there’s no time in the parent’s opinion. While I think that it could only help to have ethics reinforced at school… it is in the home and day to day life that instills the controls in a child psyche.
I value parental influence over external influence, like school. But let’s be practical here, our modern American life style is not as education oriented as it should be. And working 8 hours a day, with 1 to 2 hour commuting time plus house work like cleaning, grocery…it takes up a lot of time. Most middle class people come home dead tired and all they want to do is just eat and sleep. Do you really think they have energy to spare on kids? To change the majority[parents] is hard, but to change the minority[teaching community] is easier. Now obviously teacher teaching ethics is different from parent teaching ethics. But what if we have very dedicated teachers that makes the student see the teacher as their ‘2nd’ parents. In other word, can we improve our education system so that teachers, professional and well trained teachers, substitute the parent.
I was brought up in a rather abnormal circumstaces, which I will not elaborate, in the darkness, I found a single candle, which guided me through and to my adulthood. From personal experience, I know the value of a dedicated individual who can make you feel wanted, make you feel safe, and guide you. Most importatnly a single dedicated individual can make you invincible to other influences.
Of course, not all teachers can be that dedicated individual, that would be impractical as well. But I think we should at least attempt to install a handful of these indiviuals.
Other comments and questions were answered by Wyldeling the Wise so I will not bother to make similar reply.
Facial recognition in riots by Occams
This is rather impressive.
Zero in on any one specific single face.
This is the photo taken by Port Moody photographer Ronnie Miranda that appeared in the Tri-City News last Friday (24-June). In the paper it just appeared like a normal news crowd photo with no one identifiable
Quite scary huh. You can see – perfectly – the faces of every single individual – and there were thousands!
The influence of Google is palpable.